"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind)
11/10/2016 at 08:19 • Filed to: Performance
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"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind)
11/10/2016 at 08:19 • Filed to: Performance | 4
| 20 |
I’ve been working on a quick way to tell the category of a vehicle’s performance by using its power-to-weight ratio. The world of performance is changing and I wanted to create a system that gives some perspective as to how much more factory performance we still have to go past the hybrid “hypercars.” Also, I wanted to point out that cars like the 210 hp Golf GTI and 220 hp Golf GTI are in COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SEGMENTS.
I’m trying to avoid turning this into a huge post (for now) so ask questions and check in the comment section and I’ll expand on these more.
Performance Segments
Novelty > 30 lbs/hp .
Penalty - Benchmark 24 lbs/hp .
Economy - Benchmark 20 lbs/hp .
Sporty / “Warm” - Benchmark 16 lbs/hp .
Entry Sports / “Hot” - Benchmark 14 lbs/hp .
Full Sports - Benchmark 12 lbs/hp .
Entry Performance - Benchmark 10 lbs/hp .
Full Performance - Benchmark 9 lbs/hp .
High Performance - Benchmark 8 lbs/hp .
Ultra Performance - Benchmark 7 lbs/hp .
Super Performance - Benchmark 5 lbs/hp .
Hyper Performance - Benchmark 4 lbs/hp .
Mega Performance - Benchmark 3 lbs/hp .
Giga Performance / 1.1 - Benchmark 2 lbs/hp.
Specialty < 1.5 lbs/hp
* Until a vehicle hits the benchmark, it is at the top end of the class BELOW the benchmark.
**Also understand that this list is intended for on-road, gasoline vehicles.
Examples:
Vehicle 1 can be had with a P2W ratio of 12.10 lbs/hp . Vehicle 1 is at the top end of Entry Sports vehicle. If Vehicle 1 is a hatchback then it would be an “ Entry Sports Hatchback / Hot Hatch ” that’s about to go “ Full Sports Hatch .”
Vehicle 2 can be had with a P2W ratio of 11.97 lbs/hp . Vehicle 2 is at the bottom end of a Full Sports vehicle. If Vehicle 2 is a sedan then it would be a “ Full Sports Sedan .”
Vehicle 3 can be had with a P2W ratio of 10.51 lbs/hp . Vehicle 3 is in the middle of an Entry Performance vehicle.
Pick some cars and see where they stack up! You can help me test out this list.
More examples:
Mazda3 Touring 2.5 MT Hatch (16.55 lbs/hp) - Top-level “Economy Hatchback.”
210 hp, Golf GTI S MT 2-Door (14.15 lbs/hp) - Top-level “Sporty Hatch / Warm Hatch.”
220 hp, Golf GTI Sport MT (13.78 lbs/hp) - Low-level “Entry Sports Hatch / Hot Hatch.”
Ford Focus ST (12.79 lbs/hp) - Mid-level “Entry Sports Hatchback / Hot Hatch.”
Subaru WRX STI (11.12 lbs/hp) - Mid-level “Full Sports Sedan.”
BMW M3 MT (8.33 lbs/hp) - High/Mid-level “Full Performance Sedan.”
469 hp, Mercedes-AMG C63 Sedan (8.04 lbs/hp) - Top-level “Full Performance Sedan.
503 hp, Mercedes-AMG C63 S Sedan (7.5 lbs/hp) - Mid-level “High Performance Sedan.”
Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport MT (7.45 lbs/hp) - Mid-level “High Performance Car.”
Dodge Challenger Hellcat MT (6.29 lbs/hp) - Mid-level “Ultra Performance Muscle Car.”
Lamborghini Huracan LP610-4 (5.21 lbs/hp) - Top-level “Ultra Performance Sportscar.”
Porsche 918 Base (4.16 lbs/hp) - Top-level “Super Performance Car.”
McLaren P1 (3.77 lbs/hp) - Low/Mid-level “Hyper Performance Car.”
Bugatti Chiron (est. 2.97 lbs/hp) - Low-level “Mega Performance Car.”
Koenigsegg One:1 (2.23 lbs/hp) - Upper/Mid-level “Mega Performance Car.”
—Feel free to give me more examples, I’ll toss them in.
OPPOsaurus WRX
> Wobbles the Mind
11/10/2016 at 08:28 |
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2014 wrx and sti come in around 12.5 and 10.8 putting them in the entry hot and full sport catagories
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OPPOsaurus WRX
> Wobbles the Mind
11/10/2016 at 08:29 |
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2003 allroad 16.8 lol
Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> Wobbles the Mind
11/10/2016 at 08:31 |
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Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
> Wobbles the Mind
11/10/2016 at 08:35 |
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You realize this list puts my truck in “Entry Sports/Hot”.
You need to work in a couple more factors, such as lateral g and braking distance... come up with a sort of complete package “road vehicle Reynolds number”, but for performance ratings rather than wind tunnel tests.
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Wobbles the Mind
> Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
11/10/2016 at 08:38 |
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Baby steps! But definitely.
TysMagic
> Wobbles the Mind
11/10/2016 at 09:09 |
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I need to shed a few pounds in the Abarth it seems!
2512 / 160 = 15.7 or Sporty / Warm
I’m going to call it a warm hatch.
sm70- why not Duesenberg?
> Wobbles the Mind
11/10/2016 at 10:06 |
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My barge is a hot hatch!
Averyrm - GTI YUP
> Wobbles the Mind
11/10/2016 at 10:17 |
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How about ((lb per HP)/skidpad)*60-0 braking distance.
More G skidpad will decrease the number, further braking distance will increase it.
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Averyrm - GTI YUP
> Averyrm - GTI YUP
11/10/2016 at 10:28 |
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2010 Ford Raptor, (14.87/.83)133 = 2382
2005 lotus Elise (10.5/.99)114 = 1209
Urambo Tauro
> Wobbles the Mind
11/10/2016 at 11:21 |
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You’ve put much more thought into this than I have, but I like where you’re going with it!
Nonster
> Wobbles the Mind
11/10/2016 at 14:38 |
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Both my MR2 and my old bike (Buell Blast) are in the Sporty/Warm group at about 15 lbs/hp
My SV650 on the other hand hits the High Performance mark at 8 lbs/hp
*note for the bikes I counted rider weight (165 lbs)
Die-Trying
> Wobbles the Mind
11/10/2016 at 16:15 |
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ive finally “MADE IT”, and own a super performance car...........1950 lb/ 350hp= 5.57, and knocking on hyper performance with a bigger cam........
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Die-Trying
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
11/10/2016 at 16:20 |
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15o horse? 3800 lb?........
Phatboyphil
> Wobbles the Mind
11/10/2016 at 17:45 |
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Also I’d try to incorporate the final drive gear ratio into it as well. I did that when car shopping and it served me well.
I belive my formula was peak tq times FD divided by weight.
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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> Die-Trying
11/14/2016 at 09:43 |
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Hey, Mister. Sorry about the delay in replying.
I’ll confirm those numbers. My 4.3L Vortec V-6 in my ‘97 Safari is rated at 180 HP, and I bet it’s a heavier vehicle than this stripped-down ‘71. I have been looking at performance mods for the 250 and Clifford Performance claims I can get 300+ hp out of this straight-six! That’s a lot.
Initially, I’ll install a dual exhaust with a crossover while keeping an otherwise stock engine. There’s an electronic ignition module for the distributor that replaces the points. I’d really like to get away from a carburetor altogether, but that might be very expensive. I did see on YouTube that someone had installed a TBI from a 4.3L on their 250. We’ll see.
First, get it all cleaned up, including steam cleaning the engine. Then see about starting it.
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Die-Trying
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
11/14/2016 at 16:50 |
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the inline can be made to run...... like you say, you can get one of those modules, or you can round up a distributor out of one of the later mid 70s, 80s inlines, with the one wire hei set up. probably THE best upgrade you can make. once you can get a solid, consistant, reliable, spark , other upgrades will respond.
they make long tube headers for them hedman, and hooker. the inline 6 exhaust port tube spacing is the same as a v8 header. (you could get 2 v8 drivers sides, and cut off the last tube on one, and the first tube on the other.).one of the other big restrictions is the intake.
they still make big cams for them.
one of the important things though is that the inline is a torque engine, great for moving heavy stuff, like vans.
300 horse is definitely very doable.
definitely a fun project. itll be fun watching the updates rolling in.
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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> Die-Trying
11/15/2016 at 20:23 |
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Can you describe what the distributor mod would entail?
Is there a TBI conversion that anybody does that you know of? I am reticent about entering Carburetor World.
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Die-Trying
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
11/15/2016 at 21:05 |
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havent seen the tbi mod. it would likely require the ENTIRE setup from a donor. computer, sensors 02 map, maf, fuel tank(pump) the injector, cat, the distributor(signals the computer for the injector). be a bit of work.
the distributor mod, for aftermarket points replacement come in different varieties. there is an optic window style, like old malory distributors
other styles use a magnet that spins on the shaft, and signals a pick up. it retains the body and the cap.
BASICALLY, all that they do is replace the breaker points. you still use the old coil, and still need a voltage drop for the coil.
the other option, is just get the distributor from a mid 70s inline 6 with the hei setup. you can usually buy the whole thing at the parts houses for $150 TOPS......
with this, it has the coil on the top of the distributor, just like a small block chevy v8. it has the same ignition module. just has a different pickup for the 6 . all that you have to run to it, is a 12 volt hot wire. parts houses stock the parts for it AT the place. they are found on 74s and later inline 6.
let me know what questions you have, sometimes i do a poor job of putting what i am thinking in type........
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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> Die-Trying
11/18/2016 at 19:42 |
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Sorry I took so long replying to this and thank you for taking the time to post. I worked on an old Audi 100 in Germany when I was stationed there, I wanna say it was a ‘76. I had an Army technical manual, “Principals of Automotive Vehicles.” I think it was TM9-8000. I kept a copy for many years, but I may have finally gotten rid of it. It explained the wires that had to go to the ignition in the general case, including a drop in voltage while you were starting the car, if I remember correctly.
There are a couple of aftermarket performance mod suppliers for the L6 that I am aware of: Clifford Performance and Langdon Stovebolt. Langdon offers HEI conversion goodies:
I’ve asked them whether their cast dual exhaust manifold will fit my vanola.
MSD also makes one:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8515/overview/make/chevrolet
Then there’s (California-legal) MSD Atomic EFI, but it costs more than the van cost me...
I’m just nervous about taking on a carburetor...
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Die-Trying
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
11/19/2016 at 18:44 |
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those carbs are cake. they are usually the two jet rochesters, or the monojet. most of the time its just the accelerator pump gives it up(rubber gets hard/rips) and a few passages get gummed up. so long as you take your time cleaning out any and all sediment, you get some wire and work through all the passages (not that there are a lot), and set the floats at a decent level (probably dont need adjusting) use some good carb cleaner to let it set in, and spray through it, its a breeze. but those, are honestly some simple carbs. if it were me, i would just fill up the float bowl, and see how it run first thing.( might let it set with fuel in it for a while to limber up)
i forgot that they charge slight premiums for 6 cyl stuff $189 distributor through summit.(i just claim its for a mid 70s chevy 6)
most, of the old points set ups have the voltage drop, either a wire, or the block, which reduces the voltage to the coil to around 9 and a little. while you are cranking it though, there is a separate terminal on the starter(the one that doesnt get used most of the time anymore. it runs to the pos coil side too) and IT sends a solid 12 volts to the coil while and only while the engine is cranking. if the coil gets 12 volts full time, its life is very limited. have seen some run a few months, and a few several weeks. they always die. there are a FEW coils, and they will say on the side, that they they are in fact 12volt livable.
i like the old(ancient cave drawing style) chiltons, they would give explodo diagrams, and very detailed explanations of how to not only disassemble parts. but also how to mend, and reassemble them. things like rebuilding a starter, and resurfacing the armatures. instead of nowadays where everything is remove and throw away. back when there MIGHT of been ten wires on the wiring diagram.
good times........